Kurt Kelly’s Efforts to Have All Internet Sales Taxed
Kurt Kelly’s Efforts to Have All Internet Sales Taxed
By Mickey Spencer
On whose side is Kurt Kelly really on? He claims to be against new taxes when asked about it, but it was State Representative Kurt Kelly who filed Florida House Measure 157 on 9/30/2009. He referred it to the House Finance and Tax Council on 10/23/2009. And then on 1/4/2010, his proposed measure was withdrawn prior to introducing it. http://www.myfloridahouse.gov/sections/Bills/billsdetail.aspx?BillId=42246&
What is Florida House Measure 157? It’s commonly known as the Main Street Fairness Act. But even that is a large misnomer for the intent of this bill. After all, who would not want to be for a little fairness on Main Street? Good Ol’ Kurt’s act “Calls upon members of Florida congressional delegation to join as co-sponsors of Main Street Fairness Act & support adoption by United States Congress; urges President Barack Obama to sign Main Street Fairness Act into law upon passage by Congress.”
In the US Congress, the bill is known as HR 5660 (Main Street Fairness Act). HR 5660 is legislation that would authorize the 24 states in the Streamlined Sales and Use Tax Agreement (SSUTA) to require remote retailers to collect and remit sales tax on ALL sales conducted over the internet.
So whatever you do, don’t fall for it when Kurt Kelly tells you he’s against new taxes. Clearly he’s not only for it… he tried to introduce legislation as the primary sponsor of a bill to introduce new taxes.
Kurt’s campaign keeps assuring us that Kurt can’t possibly be a professional politician claiming he’s only been in office one term. The sneaky little detail they neglect to acknowledge is that he was elected to that position in a special election in June of 2007 and re-elected in 2008. Prior to that, he served six years on the Marion County School Board. That’s NINE years in elected office for him. It sure sounds like he’s making a career out of being a politician.
Let’s review…
- Kurt Kelly is against new taxes, but he sponsors legislation which supports new taxes
- Kurt Kelly claims to not be a career politician, but he’s served in elected office for NINE years
It sort of makes you wonder if there’s anything at all about Kurt Kelly that’s genuine or above aboard that would lead you to believe you could trust him about anything at all.
Mickey, when i gave a correction, I was trying to lead by example of what decent human beings do when they say something incorrect. Consider it a free lesson in humility, Ron Burgundy. You can start by ANSWERING MY SIMPLE QUESTION ABOUT FLORIDA’S SALES TAX VIABILITY. ENLIGHTEN ME TAX MASTER. WHIP OUT YOUR CPA LICENSE. Look, you made me use CAPS! That’s right!
And by the way, I am the one and only Gabe. I only have time to deflect your lies as myself. Hopefully you can tell by the quality of my smackdowns. I strive to deal out only the highest quality backhands. I’m Gabe Ruth and I approve this message.
I didn’t see the big picture until now. If you want to be consistent, you should march your Peculiar Army over to Dan Webster and Bruce O’Donoghue’s news stories and spread your special type of love. They are the true career politicians and RINOs in the race. Webster was in Tallahassee for 30 years and O’Donoghue is handpicked by the NRCC and endorsed heavily by liberal republican Mel Martinez. Those two have the most money too, so put 2 and 2 together and figure it out!
I guess you would rather piggy back off Kurt’s free publicity while simultaneously complaining about him getting some airplay. That’s what I call talking out of both sides of your mouth. Stop eating your own. You are just paving the way for the establishment. STAY CLASSY, Mickey Spencer.
(In case you haven’t seen anchorman):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgGCIZi1UjY
P.S. I tried an issues oriented debate with you and you stonewalled me. You can’t give an up or down answer to whether you think Florida’s sales tax will remain viable in the age of internet commerce.
Gabe, you’re entitled to your opinion. And clearly that opinion involves defending anything and everything Kurt Kelly says and does… even when they are two diametrically opposing things. But it’s America and you’re free to support that style of politics as usual since that’s clearly what appeals to you.
Florida’s present system of charging and collecting sales tax is a viable means of collecting income. But when I make an internet purchase of an item in another state and that seller has no brick-and-mortar presence in the state of Florida, Florida has no right to collect sales tax on the sale. If that seller had a brick-and-mortar presence in Florida, then Florida would have a right to levy and collect sales tax on that sale (presuming of course that actual merchandise would be shipped as a result of the sale… in other words, not electronically delivered).
Incidentally, I absolutely regard Dan Webster as a career politician for his 28 years (not 30… 18 in the Florida House and 10 in the Florida Senate) in elected office. I’m very grateful to Dan Webster for his years of service to the state of Florida during that time and I know him to be an honorable man. However, as you rightly pointed out, he’s definitely a career politician who has retired from that career. It’s my impression that he’s very uncomfortable about running in this race against Grayson, but he still owed political favors to the party leaders/power brokers which have accrued over the years. He has the appearance of someone who’s been caught in bed with a snake and doesn’t know how to get out without getting bitten. I believe he’s only nominally in this race with no desire to win strictly as a means of clearing the chits he owes.
As for Bruce O’Donoghue, he represents a special flavor of career politician in that he’s already gotten in bed with that snake (power brokers/party leaders) and has chosen to align himself with RINO’s of the Florida variety.
We agree on those two.
We would probably also agree on Dan Fanelli and Ross Bieling in that it’s pretty clear that they are each about as irrelevant as they come when it comes to candidates running for office. Ross doesn’t even live in the district. On the other hand, Kurt Kelly doesn’t live in the district either.
But of course, politics as usual dictates that if one of the non-District 8 residents wins this election, then they will rent a small apartment in the district so they can technically fool the system by claiming they have a residence in that district. It’s one of those loopholes that deserves to be closed and promptly. I don’t have the exact figures on it, but even when I used to live in the Washington DC area decades ago it was being widely practiced then and still is today. It would be interesting to see if that loophole was closed and a candidate’s primary residence was the determinant of their qualifications to serve a district how many politicians would be immediately disqualified. I believe I read where the same situation applies to Todd Long with his family living in one house and him having a small nominal residence in District 8 to qualify for the race.
Incidentally, I don’t need to “piggyback off Kurt’s free publicity” nor does Patricia’s campaign. It’s quite frankly an embarrassment that both Todd and Kurt chose to file frivolous complaints against Grayson for doing something that was absolutely legal and within the rules only to grandstand and gain a little free publicity.
Yes, we’re all offended whenever Grayson does anything at all… legal or not. But it just makes you look small and easily dismissed when the official complaints you file are without merit… and result in Grayson simply laughing in your face.
Patricia filed an actual complaint against Grayson with the Congressional Ethics Office this past October… and Grayson was forced to back down. He did not laugh in her face. That’s the difference between a complaint with merit (filed by Patricia Sullivan) and a complaint without merit (filed by Kurt Kelly) and a law suit without merit (filed by Todd Long).
It’s unlikely though that either Kelly or Long will acknowledge that not only did Patricia Sullivan beat them by several months in filing complaints against Grayson, but she also filed the only one with merit… and the only one where Grayson backed down instead of laughing in the filer’s face.
And yes, I’ve seen Anchorman. I’m not a huge Will Ferrell fan but he did a great job in that movie.
The fact that sales tax on internet sales of physical merchandise to a state where the vendor has no brick-and-mortar presence does not exist. And the fact that Kurt Kelly sponsored a piece of legislation (shot down in committee and subsequently withdrawn) that supports introducing a sales tax covering that category of internet sale still qualifies as introducing a new tax. It doesn’t really matter how you think he (or you) can justify it… it’s still a new tax (since it presently does not exist).
Further, back to the topic of career politician (and I’ve read dozens of comments in this thread which at a certain point, especially at this hour, start to merge). I’ll presume you object to that characterization of Kurt as a career politician since his people claim he only has 3 years in elected office and they choose to ignore the 6 years he served in elected office on the Marion County School Board. If you’re not one of those, then my apologies and the “other” Kelly supporters can take offense to it… LOL! I think it’s funny we both agree that Bruce O’Donoghue is a career politician without having served a single month in an elected public office due to his clear alliances (and backing) by widely recognized RINO’s. But when it comes to Kelly, his supporters insist that since serving on the Marion County School Board is a part time position, those years shouldn’t count in that figure. I presume Kelly’s supporters realize that State Senator and State Representative are also part-time positions. So under their definition to exempt Kelly, you’d have to exempt Dan Webster from that characterization as well. So in short, granting an exemption to the characterization due to part-time elected office is a fallacy. You’re either in a publicly elected office or you’re not. Webster was in for 28 years and Kelly has been in for 9 years. Each of them are seeking to be elected to a 2 year term in the US Congress (full time by the way) which would bring them Webster to 30 years and Kelly to 11 years. And then there’s O’Donoghue who’s managed to slip on that characterization (seemingly with pride… LOL!) without having served a day yet… LOL!
As we all have know Kurt Kelly is a career politician and for this reason I say he shouldn’t have the job of replacing Grayson. We have already seen him vote for the Sunrail because we have to “vote as a team” and this is what HAS TO GO! I’m am so sick and tired of these people, and now Mickey you have given us more info showing him not only wanting to vote for more taxes but introducing them.
We see that there are several in this race that already have the backing of the elites and the politiicians so you better watch out when you go to vote. Do we the people want the same ole same ole or do we want something new? Check out their endorsements and that says alot, are they from the rinos and career politicians are they from the people that they will be speaking for? So yes, this takes out Kelly, Webster, and O’Donoghue right off the bat. I say what our area needs is Patricia Sullivan, one who will stand and speak for us and not feel that she has to “vote as a team”. She is EVERYWHERE and is meeting the people instead of spending $100,000’s of dollors to buy their votes. Don’t we need and want to get back to getting to know the candidates instead of just seeing their ads? She is not a mud slinger either but one that fights for what is right when she sees it. If you haven’t already go and check her out @ http://www.patriciasullivanforcongress.com. Then check her schedule out and come and meet her, or as others have done already, when you see her at an intersection doing a honknwave, stop and talk to her. She’d love to meet you.
Very well put Beth!
@Beth407
Patricia Sullivan doesn’t sling mud? Yes, she does and she has her groupies do it too. Changing the Dan Fanelli sign to say Patricia Sullivan isn’t dishonest? Dan Fanelli is the honest candidate in this race and he is a true gentleman.
Patricia Sullivan is a piece of work and needs to be running for a political office in Chicago.
That is the exact politics we are no longer falling for… they are for it until they are against it… they are against it till they vote for it… Blah blah blah… Let’s forget about politics as usual “Kelly, O’Donoghue and Webster” and Vote for a True Constitutional Conservative for the People Patricia Sullivan !!!!
1.
You already support a different version of Kurt’s internet tax by supporting the FAIR Tax. Read this from the FAIR Tax’s own documents:
https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://www.fairtax.org/PDF/TheFairTaxWhatsInItForTheStates.pdf&pli=1
“The FairTax legislation allows states that conform their sales tax base to the FairTax
base to tax Internet and mail order sales to purchasers resident in their states. Internet
sales are expected to experience huge growth in the future. According to Bruce and
Fox, the revenue losses to states from electronic commerce will be between $21.5
billion and $33.7 billion for 2008. 3″
The end result is the same in that internet purchases will be taxed regardless. I think that relying on the sales tax in its current form is unsustainable. It’s as if we were in the 1920s and our primary source of income was a horse and buggy tax (this is a crude analogy, but please consider this example for hypothetical reasons). 20 years from now the horse and buggy tax would be obsolete because everyone would be driving cars. I don’t think that brick and mortar stores will become completely obsolete, but its undeniable that e-commerce will only expand over time and inevitably out-compete brick and mortar stores with higher overhead. Where does that leave the viability of Florida raising revenue from the sales tax?
2.
AND on the issue of Kurt living outside the district…what are we talking? A mile? Can’t that be attributed to the gerrymandering? How do you know his house wasn’t in the district when he bought it and then moved outside the district when the lines were redrawn? Kurt’s talent isn’t needed in the 6th district. It’s needed to take out Grayson.
By the way, you are pretty quick about pointing out that Kurt’s complaint about Grayson’s legal franking privilege is meritless. Isn’t it equally meritless for you to criticize him for living outside the district if he is acting legally? You make a fair argument about closing the loophole, but shouldn’t Grayson’s loophole be closed too? I’m not fully convinced that Kelly’s claim IS meritless, but if it is, I have less of a problem with Kelly making a meritless charge against Grayson than I do with Sully’s people making meritless charges against Kelly.
3.
I didn’t say O’Donoghue was a “career politician”. I said he was a RINO. It just looked that way because I put it in the same sentence as when I called Webster a career politician. Likewise, I’m not fully prepared to call Webster a RINO, although he may very well be.
The reason I don’t count the school board position as career politician status is because it is part time, not well paid, and isn’t self gratifying like higher office. School board officials truly serve their communities and that is admirable. I DO count Kurt’s state rep job towards potential career politician status if he was there long enough to justify that title, but I don’t think he was there long enough to warrant that claim. If you believe Sullivan and George Washington are correct (quite an apt comparison I must say) in saying two terms is enough, then you shouldn’t begrudge Kelly’s tenure because he hasn’t served two full terms. That would be true consistency.
Gabe,
Pay attention to the lesson…
1) Fair Tax REPLACES is designed to REPLACE the Income Tax (and repeals the 16th amendment), not supplement the Income Tax.. If Kurt wants to introduce the Fair Tax and repeal the 16th amendment and abolish the IRS and the Income Tax, tell him to be my guest… but frankly, Kurt lacks the guts to do that. Patricia Sullivan has had that as one of the principles for which she stands since the very beginning. Face it, Kurt supports introducing a new tax… and it is indeed a new tax when it will be implemented where none presently exists.
2) Gerrymandering? LOL! Nice try! The district lines presently in place were drawn roughly 10 years ago. Whether Kurt lives one mile outside the district he intends to represent or 400 miles outside (as some Florida Tea Party political party candidates do), the fact is Kurt didn’t live in the 8th District when he decided to run for the 8th District US Representative for Florida… and he still doesn’t. And the fact remains that on the off-chance that he’s elected he will have to legally change his residence to the 8th District. And it’s a certainty that Kurt would set up a shadow residence there to marginally comply just as other career politicians have done for decades and decades…. but there’s no way on earth that he would move his family to the 8th District.
The fact remains that Kelly’s complaint against Grayson using Kiting privileges is legally without merit…. regardless of whether you agree with the kiting rules or not. And the fact remains that Kurt lives outside the 8th District regardless of what district you feel it was in when he bought it. Legally a candidate is not requited to live in the district they plan to represent until and unless they actually win the election. But it is indeed yet another sign that Kurt is being disingenuous with the voters in failing to state that he doesn’t even live yet in the district he wants to represent. It’s further disingenuous to set up a shadow household to nominally qualify… even if it does marginally meet the law.
3) School board officials truly serve their communities? LOL! That’s a good one. I guess you don’t have a lot of experience with them.
George Washington served 8 years in elected public office which he regarded as enough for anyone. Kurt’s already up to 9 years. Hint: 9 > 8. Since you’re apparently now recognizing that a state legislator position is part time just like a county school board position,, now you’ve chosen to throw out the red herring about “well paid”. Are you aware of how little state legislators are paid in Florida? Are you aware of how much county school board commissioners are paid?
I’m getting ready for church now, but will provide you those answers later when I return home. That will provide you with enough time to identify yet another red herring in the meantime… LOL!
3. Term Limits
Sam Adams already proved your George Washington analogy wrong earlier on:
“Sounds like Mickey needs a little history lesson. George Washington was elected to the Virginia House of Burgesses, which was the state house for Virginia, for 16 years, I guess that makes George Washington a career politician! Oh ya, and he was also elected to be commander in chief of the continental army.”
http://www.whitehouse.gov/about/presidents/georgewashington
The Revolutionary War lasted from 1775–1783 (that’s 8 years). 8+8+16=32. By my count, 32>9. It’s also greater than 3!
In the off chance Sully Sullenberger wins, the seas aren’t going to part. Politicians aren’t going to start following her two term example and magically start term limiting themselves. She won’t be a footnote to a footnote in history, more of a fart in the wind.
And if you are going to quote her stance on term limits, do it right. Her press release on being one of the Freshmen 50 suggests she is ok with their term limit policy: “Term Limits: Limit terms in Congress to no more than 12 years in the House and Senate, respectively.” 12 is also greater than 9, so I guess she has no problem with Kurt’s service.
And another thing. A while back, I actually asked her what her policy on term limits was and this is what she wrote back:
“…I referred to a “two year tour of duty” but those who are in/have family in the service know there is often a call back to duty. I believe 3 terms are more reasonable and would love to see a “6 and out” policy.
So what is it? 2 terms? 3 terms? 6 terms? Since the term limit issue is one of the things she is running on, she should probably iron that little detail out. Personally, I think 8 years in congress would be more equivocal to the George Washington example than a mere 4 years. 12 years is definitely the upper limit.
Oh Mickey your so blind, and unkind, you’ve obviously lost your mind, eh Mickey? Eh Mickey? (Just ribbing you)
2. Gerrymandering
Your far fetched analogies are telling. You compare a fake Florida Tea Party candidate living 400 miles outside the district to Kelly living 1 mile outside the district. Just as you compared a mayor of 57 years to Kelly’s 3 year tenure (the school board claim is a desperate stretch). Yes, the lines were drawn 10 years ago, but for all you know, they could be redrawn to include him VERY SHORTLY. You know you are splitting hairs. Look at the ridiculous shape of the district.
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/findyourreps.xpd?state=FL&district=8
How is that representative of Central Florida? Look where Grayson’s office in the Lynx Building is…The OTHER SIDE of I4 is outside the district. If anything, I blame the map drawing process more than the rule that allows people to live outside of their district. It was drawn by Republicans and I still think its ridiculous! You expect him to sell his house and move his family A MILE knowing that the map will be redrawn in a few months anyway??? Give me a break. How would that change his understanding of the issues in the district? He is literate, you know. I guess that’s more of that magical thinking that he will absorb our issues by touching the hallowed ground of district 8. You are clearly grandstanding for publicity just as you accuse Kurt of doing over Grayson’s franking. If you have a problem with the map drawing process, then propose a new way. Unfortunately, it is the best system we have.
In regards to living outside the district, Brascoboy admits that he lives outside the district, yet you all revere and repeat the talking points from his “Sunrail Kelly, Career Politician” youtube video. You should demonstrate consistency by voluntarily taking his (misleadingly titled) video down if you have such a problem with people outside the district. Unless Brascoboy plans to move to the district after the election, then its ok (JK). Don’t let a foreign entity influence our “cohesive” district. That would demonstrate consistency.
Oh and not to get off on a tangent on Sunrail, but I still haven’t seen any Sullivan fans acknowledge if they will vote for Marco Rubio since he voted for SunRail.
1.Fair Tax
In regards to Kelly’s internet tax bill, it demonstrates that he tried to implement part of the FAIR Tax and he put it in writing! I think that is a plus! I don’t think it’s fair to blame him for not sponsoring the repeal of the 16th amendment as a state legislator while simultaneously trying to get this narrowly focused bill through committee. As you can see, other Tallahassee Republicans didn’t have Kelly’s political courage and they let his bill die in committee (because it was election season I presume). How would it have increased the odds of getting it passed if Kurt attached the repeal of the 16th amendment to it as a state legislator?
You have to understand the limitations of what is politically possible to get things done. As I said before, the government is not unicorn powered. It sounds like you have magical expectations for government (and attribute messianic qualities to your political savior). Sometimes things have to be done incrementally. For example, Immigration reform should happen piecemeal by securing the border, THEN dealing with the people here; not comprehensively. Health care reform, once Obamacare is repealed (by legislators like Kurt), will probably happen in a piecemeal fashion as well, not comprehensively.
I would guess that his intestinal fortitude would have something to do with why he won Freshman legislator of the year! We need politicians with Kelly’s BRAVERY in Washington if we want the Fair Tax to become a reality. I’m glad Sully Sullenberger supports the Fair Tax, but she doesn’t have any proof like Kelly does.
At this point, I think its fair to say that we have reached an impasse on the Fair Tax where we just have to agree to disagree. I find it stunning that you can so easily dismiss that Kelly’s bill is ripped from the pages of the Fair Tax just as the AZ immigration law is ripped from federal law. We have both made our points and I will let mine stand on their merits. Thanks you for your spirited debate! Feel free to challenge me on Gerrymandering and Term Limits though. Oh and I am genuinely interested in seeing your salary figures on school board members. I already know that state legislators make approximately 30k.
I want to share something with you. Its a song by Amos Lee. It’s called “What’s Been Going On”. It’s a great song by a talented musician. I hope it gives you some peace.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7sY75OeH8o
http://www.floridalcir.gov/UserContent/docs/File/data/legissal.pdf shows the salaries of the Florida legislators. As you can see in the table, the speaker makes $41,181 annually while all others make $29,697 annually. Since a Florida state legislator position is only part-time, these are acceptable salaries.
I’m still locating salaries for Marion County School Board members.
From your link…
“the authorized salaries of legislative members in effect on June 30, 2009 (i.e., $44,280
and $31,392, respectively), shall be reduced by 7%”
I think its commendable that our reps voluntarily reduced their salaries while Kurt was in Tallahassee….unlike our reps in D.C. that also vote themselves pay increases.
$30k in supplemental income is nothing to sneeze at. I eke by on a $30k salary, so it can be done. But its also nothing to brag about. I wish I made more.
To further the Kelly discussion…someone should ask him why he opposes a federal balanced budget. He voted against a resolution calling for a constitutional amendment for a balanced budget in this past legislative session. It was almost an entirely party line vote…except for Kelly who voted with the Democrats.
I might also note that all of Patricia Sullivan’s supporters are on this blog…all three of them. She might be a nice lady but it is a painful experience to listen to her speak. Ms. Sullivan’s campaign would be viable if she was running for county commission. However, in a congressional district with close to 700,000 people, it is impossible to win without raising money for media and proper outreach. That is a fact.
I know, I know, you’re going to tell me she has a grassroots army and she doesn’t need money to win. Well, I’m sorry to enlighten you that no one knows who she is outside of political nerds and her friends. Here is another fact: she won’t get more than 15 percent of the vote.
Again, I’m sure she has all the right intentions behind her decision to run. I’m just trying to educate some of the kool aide drinkers that think she is relevant in this race. She’ll end up in fifth place behind Kelly and ahead of Bieling.
Here are the house and senate pages for the balanced budget resolution.
HCR 8001
http://www.myfloridahouse.gov/Sections/Bills/billsdetail.aspx?BillId=44381
SCR 10
http://www.myfloridahouse.gov/Sections/Bills/billsdetail.aspx?BillId=44353&
HCR 8001 hasn’t been voted on yet in the house. It looks like they were trying to decide to kill the house bill in favor of the senate bill. The reason for a ‘No’ vote is hard to divine from a sheet of paper with Y’s and N’s on it. Isn’t it likely that the reason for the No vote was procedural (not substantive) to get rid of the house bill in favor of the senate bill? Your guess is as good as mine, but I can’t think of a good reason for a fiscal conservative to vote against a balance budget amendment.
On this page, Kelly votes No with the REPUBLICANS, not the DEMOCRATS.
http://www.myfloridahouse.gov/Sections/Bills/floorvote.aspx?VoteId=10906&BillId=44353&
By the way, my prediction for the final election standings are:
Kelly, Webster, Long, O’Donoghue, Sullivan, Bieling, Fanelli
How about you?
Recording Y’s and N’s as votes is far superior to Obama’s votes as a senator which were generally recorded only as Present.
As for the Marion County School Board salaries, that’s apparently a deeply guarded secret. Gee! I wonder if it could be that they’re all overpaid… especially when they’re trying to raise taxes to supposedly fund education (regardless of county!).
What I did find was this article from last year in which Marion County School Board Member Jackie Porter gave back 10% of her salary (meaning she gave back $3,624) to help out the county’s education efforts. http://www.ocalamagazine.com/specpubsnews/templates/features.aspx?articleid=1714&zoneid=3 Thus her salary (and the salary of the other board members) is about $36,240. So much for that argument about school board members making low salaries compared to state legislators. I believe I’ve seen articles indicating the ones in Orange County are significantly higher, but the search for Marion County was exhausting enough… LOL!
Bob, as for your negative comments about Patricia Sullivan, I think you’d be surprised if you stopped drinking Kurt’s Kool-Aid long enough to learn that she actually has very broad name recognition all across the 8th District. I think you’d also be surprised to learn that 15% in a 7-person race is actually quite a high number. I think we can all agree that Dan Fanelli and Ross Beiling will each collect a possible 1/4 of a percent each (or maybe together… LOL!) in the primary vote so it’s pretty easy to dismiss them out of hand. The term negligible was invented exactly for candidates like those two… LOL!
Since you’re already aware of Patricia’s grassroots army (significantly more volunteers than any of the other candidates), I won’t belabor that point for you.
Kelly, Webster, and O’Donoghue will largely split the RINO vote with all their career politician endorsements. And thanks to Tea Party movement education and publicity efforts, the majority of voters are totally fed-up with career politicians and those who are being backed by party leaders, power brokers, leftists, and progressives.
That leaves only Patricia Sullivan and Todd Long. Todd’s a nice guy, but he has a very long history of one bad personal decision after another. All of central Florida is aware of most of those bad personal choices so there’s not much point in enumerating them here. I really do wish him well in the future and that he take some time to deal with his personal inner demons.
I’m going to go out on a limb here and guess that Gabe would disagree with that logic, but it’s America and he’s welcome to his opinion. But I genuinely believe that Patricia Sullivan will win the primary and proceed on to knock Grayson on his back for the second time in two years… well, for at least the 2nd time in that period of time… LOL!
Mickey, Bob actually criticized Kelly, so I don’t think he is drinking Kurt’s Kool Aid. He probably is a Webster or O’Donoghue person.
I think Long is radioactive, but has good name recognition, so he will “show”. I appreciate the importance of grassroots, but I think you underappreciate the importance of money. When you boil it down, I think that will be the deciding factor of the race: if money or grassroots was more important.
Good detective work on the school board salaries. It’s more than I expected, but not an obscenely high number. I estimated it would be $15-18k. Oh well. We disagree that Kurt is a career politician.
Final thoughts. Tell Brascoboy to take his youtube video down since he lives outside the district. Also, will you vote for Rubio since he voted for Sunrail? And what is Sullivan’s actual term limit policy? Is it 2, 3, or 6?
Sorry about the confusion on Bob. This has been one of the longer threads on OPP and very few of us are limiting our comments to less than a novel in length… LOL! It’s hard to say who Bob supports, but they’re likely irrelevant… LOL!
I understand your point about money and I find it (as do most) that money is regarded as such a deciding factor. I’d love to see candidates across the nation (not just Patricia, and not just at the expense of candidates like Kelly) with grassroots organizations and little if any campaign money to win their contests and shake up that whole paradigm. As you’re keenly aware, it starts with one and builds from there. Of course, if that paradigm gets shifted, it will upset all the media outlets who’ve come to expect campaign advertising as a significant line item in their budgets… and that wouldn’t make me unhappy at all, LOL!
I agree that you and I will just have to agree to disagree about Kurt’s status as a career politician.
As for Brascoboy, I’m a little confused on why you feel that he should not be able to post a YouTube about Kelly’s support of SunRail solely because BrascoBoy lives outside the 8th District. We’ve already agreed that Kurt also lives outside the 8th District. I’ll make you a deal though. If Kurt agrees to drop out of the race, then I feel very certain I can talk Brascoboy into taking down that YouTube video… Deal?
As for Patricia’s stance on term limits, she has a personal promise from her of coming home after a maximum of 2 terms. But she would favor a maximum of either 3 or 4 terms in general (I’ll ask her about it when I see her later). If someone should choose on an individual basis (as has she) to volunteer to a lesser term limit, that’s fine. Personally, I’d be fine with either 3 or 4 terms. But I’d really rather see what I speak about in the next paragraph.
Personally, I’d like to shift the whole argument about term limits to an entirely different way of measuring it. I would suggest that each individual gets a maximum of 24 years (and I’m negotiable on that number as it’s presently only a number that seems reasonable) for the entirety of an individual’s time in elected office. EVERY public office to which you were elected would count in that figure. This would include everything from the President of the United States on down to Soil & Conservation District (and lower if I could think of one… LOL!).And if you have 23 years in elected office, you could still run for elected office… but it would have to be an office that had a term of 1 year or less. That way, if you had your aspirations on the Presidency, you’d better not be setting up camp for too long at all the steps along the way. They could keep the 10 year limit on the Presidency, but this new limit I’m proposing would eliminate all other term limits (aside from those a candidate placed upon themselves).
Everyone has a lot to say here but one thing is for certain. Kurt has a lot of political baggage in a short time and has nothing that merits a great deal of praise, Patricia Sullivan has NO political baggage and has been the driving force of the North Lake Tea Party that has been instrumental in reigning in government excess spending.
http://hotair.com/archives/2010/08/09/does-the-tea-party-have-a-money-problem/?print=1
there is a good article in Hot Air about the importance of money in the tea party movement. I think the results of this primary will shape that paradigm.
I’m a moderate on money. I think you need SOME money. Kelly’s fundraising isn’t setting the world on fire. He has enough to send out some mailers though. I do think money can be a liability in the case of Webster and O’Donoghue where people perceive they are too entrenched.
HAHA, clever ploy on the Brascoboy video. I’m only asking for consistency on your parts since y’all are the ones shouting loudly about outside of the district influence. I personally have no problem with someone living a mile or so outside the district. That’s petty.
On term limits, I saw a compelling argument that term limits will encourage legislators to get further into bed with lobbyists when they become lame ducks. I don’t know if it can get worse than it already is though, so I’m all for term limits, but the lame duck corruption issue is something worth considering.
I agree with you that a cumulative measure of public service years would be beneficial to our system. I think lobbying and lawyering should count towards that number.
Another thing we could do to dislodge the establishment is limit the time congress is in session. Every time they meet we lose more of our liberties. Texas has a small amount of time in session and gets a lot done. Limited sessions would also increase the accessibility to the system for regular people of moderate means.
You are right Richard, Sully doesn’t have so much as a political duffel bag. Quite the light weight if you ask me. By the way Richard, could you bleat Sullivan’s website “number” one more time for good measure? I don’t think we know it by heart yet. Baaahhh.
Kurt Kelly is an honorable statesman!
I was at the debate last night, Kurt Kelly won- hands down. His experience and ability to communicate was terrific. Kurt is the “great communicator”. His degree in Political Science, being a student of history and Constitution was so evident .You can see that Kurt Kelly is a God- honoring man who loves his family, country and the Lord. It is obvious that there are folks are scared of Kurt Kelly. They are attacking from all different angles, distorting the truth, misleading the folks and are mean spirited . Shame on them.
Lincoln said that “by faith, right makes might” .That is our cry as a Kelly supporter. When you run on honest, truthful and take the high road campaign, the truth will prevail and strength will come from doing the right thing.
God will honor such behavior.
When folks tell misleading and untruthful slants on issues,they know they are NOT being truthful. Stop telling untruths on the sales tax collection.This is NO INTERNET TAX. The folks of Florida should want the state of Florida to collect the sales taxes that the customer has paid through an internet transaction. If not the state of Florida is not getting what that customer has already paid. Come on- get it right!
This amazes me- the way Spencer and other half truths people are running around misleading folks on this. People – get the facts.
Kurt is the ONLY one in this race to have the energy, strength and wisdom it will take to beat Grayson.
A vote for the others is a vote for Grayson.
http://www.kellyforcongress.com
Right now you are required to pay State Sales Tax on anything you purchase over the internet or from a catalog from outside Florida if the tax is not collected by the supplier. They are currently running a Tax Amnesy for these taxes.